America's History Fibs

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Alan B
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America's History Fibs

Post by Alan B » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:36 pm

Could be interesting.
BBC4 - 17 Jan 2019 @ 21:00

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Jason » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:40 pm

I find her enthralling. I love her sexy rhotacism.

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Forty Two » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 pm

Alan B wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Could be interesting.
BBC4 - 17 Jan 2019 @ 21:00

Image
Why would the BBC do an expose' like this on American history fibs? Aren't there enough British history fibs to last a while? Or, are BBC watchers not interested in learning about the bullshit they've been sold about their own history?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Animavore » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:22 pm

Interesting. She did one on Britain last year. Peas in a pod, they and the US are. Both teach glowing histories in school portraying them in a glorious light, while downplaying or ignoring the human cost. I was stunned to find out they're taught nothing of Ireland!

Here's a trailer for the US one.

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Jason » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:27 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 pm
Alan B wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Could be interesting.
BBC4 - 17 Jan 2019 @ 21:00

Image
Why would the BBC do an expose' like this on American history fibs? Aren't there enough British history fibs to last a while? Or, are BBC watchers not interested in learning about the bullshit they've been sold about their own history?
They've already done it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08bqdzl

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Rum » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:29 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 pm
Alan B wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Could be interesting.
BBC4 - 17 Jan 2019 @ 21:00

Image
Why would the BBC do an expose' like this on American history fibs? Aren't there enough British history fibs to last a while? Or, are BBC watchers not interested in learning about the bullshit they've been sold about their own history?
We have a glorious history, wreathed in honour, nobility, and colonial benevolence.

America on the other hand sells coca cola and invades countries at random.

Lucy Worsley is a serious historian, very entertaining and with a mild and endearing lisp. Should be well worth watching!
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Animavore » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:30 pm

When reverse tu quoque fails. :lol:
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Forty Two » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:31 pm

Episode on the Civil War -

"But Lucy reveals that Lincoln’s personal views, and the behaviour of his troops towards African Americans, were not as noble as they appeared."

Who said they were noble? Everyone was racist back then, even British people. Even people that were abolitionists generally did not think of Africans as being equal to anglo-saxons.

"Then, in the South, after the war, she learns how history was rewritten in a bid to downplay the evils of slavery, and how a 1905 blockbuster film about the Civil War relaunched the Ku Klux Klan with terrifying results." Uh, what fib? This is taught in high school history class - at least it was when I was in school. The rise of the Klan was discussed, reconstruction, the efforts of the white South to resist the freeing of the slaves by introducing Jim Crow las and the like. The Birth of a Nation movie is infamous, and it's fake image of the south and the Klan as a heroic institution has been known to be fake for 100 year.

"Lucy visits the Georgia countryside of Scarlett O’Hara, but Gone with the Wind’s technicolor depiction of the old South and contented slaves was just part of a continued effort to whitewash history and romanticise a dark past." - Gone With the Wind is a novel, not a historical fib. It's a romanticization of antebellum Georgia, not a history fib. Nobody thinks it's true.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002706

After reading the summary, I'm interested in seeing the show, because the summary doesn't identify any "fibs."

I mean, I saw and read Shakespeare's Henry V, but I don't think of it as portraying accurate British and French history.

Maybe we should do a documentary about British history fibs and expose how the Brits were a colonial power that oppressed and murdered the Indians, stole from Greece and Egypt, colonized 1/4 of the world, etc. ,and pretend that nobody knows about all that today. There are movies that present a romanticized version or portrayal of british history which ignores some of the more unsavory events and people, and glosses over a lot of that.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Animavore » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:32 pm

Full episodes on YouTube.


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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Forty Two » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:40 pm

Rum wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:29 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 pm
Alan B wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Could be interesting.
BBC4 - 17 Jan 2019 @ 21:00

Image
Why would the BBC do an expose' like this on American history fibs? Aren't there enough British history fibs to last a while? Or, are BBC watchers not interested in learning about the bullshit they've been sold about their own history?
We have a glorious history, wreathed in honour, nobility, and colonial benevolence.

America on the other hand sells coca cola and invades countries at random.

Lucy Worsley is a serious historian, very entertaining and with a mild and endearing lisp. Should be well worth watching!
I know, I've seen her on other programs.

But, it sounds really weird that she would expose the "fib of American history" by citing the fact that the novel and movie version of "Gone with the Wind" portrays and overly rosy picture of antebellum southern US -- and another exposed "fib" is that northerners were still racist against blacks, even though they fought against the south in the civil war. The whiff of bullshit from that summary (of the civil war episode), is rather pungent. I mean, as I said, everyone knows Gone With the Wind is a romanticized novel, and everyone knows pretty much everyone was racist in 1865. It's not as if mothers and fathers were giddy to have their daughters bring Frederick Douglas home for dinner.

For fuck's sake, the movie "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" came out like a century after the civil war, and involved supposed left wing, academic elites who were all for equality and egalitarianism who nevertheless struggled with their own racism when confronted with their daughter bringing home Sidney Poitier as a fiance. American and European culture was very racist up until about 50-60 years ago, and it was a rather precipitous change since then.

I'm just curious where the historian gets her idea that American history somehow is that the north was completely un-racist and the south was some sort of white garden of eden with blacks content in their subjugation. That's not taught as American history at all.

I guess if debunking American History Fibs is the same thing as debunking Griffith's "Birth of a Nation", then sure. But, nobody thinks Birth of a Nation is anything other than Klan propaganda.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Forty Two » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:41 pm

Animavore wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:32 pm
Full episodes on YouTube.


I stand properly chastised. I wish I had that channel on our t.v.

I'll look for it.

Thanks!
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Seabass » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:55 pm

"It seems to me that America is incredibly well branded as a country."


Wtf? We're the most hated country on earth, known for slavery, genocide, and perpetual warfare, and everyone thinks we're stupid, fat, and racist and have terrible cheeses, beers, movies, music, comedy, etc. What the devil is she talking about, "well branded"?!
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Seabass » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 pm
Why would the BBC do an expose' like this on American history fibs? Aren't there enough British history fibs to last a while? Or, are BBC watchers not interested in learning about the bullshit they've been sold about their own history?
Oh shut up, snowflake.
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"Bad government is the natural product of rule by those who believe government is bad." —Thomas Frank

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"I’m a nationalist." —Trump

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Cunt » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:06 pm

America has an image which includes 'savior of Europe', and 'rid Europe of the Nazi threat'.

I used to buy into it pretty firmly.

Not so much since a couple days ago.
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Seabass » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:12 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:40 pm
American and European culture was very racist up until about 50-60 years ago, and it was a rather precipitous change since then.
American culture is still very racist, as is evident from the motherfucker we put in the White House.
"The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." ―H.L. Mencken

"Bad government is the natural product of rule by those who believe government is bad." —Thomas Frank

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." —Einstein
"I’m a nationalist." —Trump

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