College IQ

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Re: College IQ

Post by JimC » Mon May 23, 2016 11:40 pm

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Re: College IQ

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue May 24, 2016 9:42 am

College is uniquely American.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: College IQ

Post by laklak » Tue May 24, 2016 2:57 pm

How so?
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Re: College IQ

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue May 24, 2016 4:19 pm

Your whole education system is so different to most European schools well really anywhere else. There is nothing like college in most European systems. We have a three phase system with different age divisions. Level 1 is 4-5 to 11-12. Level 2 is 11-12 to 18. Level 3 is 18+.
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Re: College IQ

Post by Forty Two » Tue May 24, 2016 4:25 pm

I'm sure that must make the American system worse. Holland's system is most like the best, as are all things Dutch. Better, smarter, more peaceful, more enlightened, safer, more educated, and most non-exceptionalism-ish....
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: College IQ

Post by laklak » Tue May 24, 2016 4:40 pm

The term "college" here is generally interchangeable with "university", it's post-secondary education after graduation from high school, which occurs (usually) at age 18. Systems may differ slightly between states, but generally we have Kindergarten (ages 4-5), Elementary or Primary school (5-6 to 11-12), Middle School or Junior High (12-14), and high school (14-18). That's the end of free education, for the most part. You must apply for admission to college (or university), and are not guaranteed acceptance. College is where you get your BA or BS (4 year) degree - engineering, computer sciences, social sciences, pre-medical, pre-law, etc. Then, if you need to, you do post-graduate work. Masters degree, Phd, medical degree, Juris Doctor, etc. Technically, "college" refers to a specific school within a university, for example The College of Medicine or College of Engineering, but in practice it's used to refer to the entire baccalaureate degree system.

Probably the biggest difference is we have Community Colleges (aka Junior Colleges), which are essentially the first two years of a baccalaureate degree. They also usually offer technical or vocational classes like auto mechanics, licensed practical nursing, or other fields not requiring a university degree. They are FAR less expensive than full universities and usually have easier admission standards. My youngest is finishing her Associates Degree at community college this semester, before transferring to Florida State University. She took exactly the same courses and got exactly the same credit as she would have had she gone to FSU from the start, but it cost her less than 1/3 of what FSU would have set her back.
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Re: College IQ

Post by Forty Two » Tue May 24, 2016 4:49 pm

Before someone talks about how uncivilized it is for the US to not admit everyone who wants to go to college into college, let's be clear that anyone with a high school degree can get into a college somewhere. A community college or a county college are very inexpensive, offer plenty of financial aid, and admit all comers. We have thousands of colleges in the US, public and private, and there is hardly a person who does not live in a county with a college just a few miles away from their home.

Not everyone can get into Ivy League schools, of course, but some college is available to anyone who wants to go.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: College IQ

Post by laklak » Tue May 24, 2016 5:01 pm

I don't see how it's uncivilized, myself. Not everybody needs a degree, all it's doing is cheapening the value of one. It used to be a BS was all you needed, now many fields are looking for a Masters, and in some cases a Phd. For example, you can't be a Physical Therapist (at least in Florida) without a Phd. Occupational therapists must have a Masters. Luckily, Mrs. Lak got her registration the year before O.T. started requiring a Masters, otherwise she'd have had to go back to school. She had a bit of a hard time convincing the licensing authorities that her O.T. degree from the UK was equivalent to our OT degrees, though, because they said it wasn't up to U.S. standards. She had to take additional board exams to prove it. :lol:
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Re: College IQ

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue May 24, 2016 5:14 pm

Forty Two wrote:I'm sure that must make the American system worse. Holland's system is most like the best, as are all things Dutch. Better, smarter, more peaceful, more enlightened, safer, more educated, and most non-exceptionalism-ish....
Please I am not saying like that and please dont go there. Everything here is not perfect but I think we are not doing a bad job and all I want is to have a discussion not points scoring that belongs to another place.
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Re: College IQ

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue May 24, 2016 5:34 pm

Thanks Lak for the explanation :tup:

I agree not everyone requires a degree which is what has happened in Britain. Britain had a good system of polytechs where practical diplomas could be gained in practical subjects. The highest level could be considered an engineering degree and holders had seldom problems in finding work. What did they do? Turned all the polytechs into universities. This has resulted in a loss of practical qualified skilled people and the jobs they would have done are done by immigrants from countries that have kept their version of polytechs going.

Here it is the same as we have kept the polytechs going and they are called Hogerscholen. The system is almost the same as Germany's. We have middle and higher levels. Both are very much sought after by employers.

The British have continued with the BA degree in three years which is not accepted here. A BA here is at least 4 years depending on the subject. A full law degree is still 6 years and it still gains the old fashioned title of meester with the initials of mr (always lower case) before your name also for women. My late girlfriend was a jurist (a non-practising advocate).
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Re: College IQ

Post by laklak » Tue May 24, 2016 5:35 pm

I think the differences in the UK and US systems (I don't know about other European countries) is more about nomenclature rather than a significant difference in course content. We learn basically the same things at approximately the same time. Comp Sci graduates from UK universities were as knowledgeable and competent as any from US universities, so were South African graduates. Had all three (and a few more) on my teams over the years. One difference is US universities take 4 years to do what many UK ones do in 3, but that's because our universities generally require a year of other course material rather than concentrating on the major field of study. You have to have a certain number of credit hours in fields unrelated to your major. Social science majors must take courses in the sciences, math, etc., and STEM students must take courses in stuff like sociology and anthropology. These are often marked as "courses for non-majors", and wouldn't be as rigorous.

EDIT a lot of bachelor's degrees are taking more than 4 years here, too. Basically the STEM fields take 5 now, unless you really, really, really work hard to do it in 4. Used to be you could graduate in 4 years taking the summer off, not anymore. It's full time if you want to get out in 4, with a heavy course load. Some do it, of course.
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Re: College IQ

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue May 24, 2016 5:44 pm

I think we are talking about the same thing. The lack of uptake of practical education available these days. Industry is crying out for qualified electricians, plumbers, heating engineers and almost everything else practical but this huge emphasis on university as created a massive problem. Kids these days seem to have this idealisation that a degree means the gravy train when in fact it is far from it. A three year BA is not worth the paper it is written on.
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Re: College IQ

Post by laklak » Tue May 24, 2016 5:59 pm

Absolutely. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: youngsters need to seriously consider the trades. A plumber makes as much as an engineer around here, and a good marine mechanic is worth their weight in gold. $50-100 an hour is pretty standard if you know diesels. That's good money. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC, mechanics, paint and body, all are lucrative trades that do not require a university education. Plus not everybody is suited for it.
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Re: College IQ

Post by Tyrannical » Tue May 24, 2016 6:08 pm

Oh, so IQ matters now? Lol.
IQ tests were originally designed to measure academic ability. But of course they're racist lol
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Re: College IQ

Post by piscator » Tue May 24, 2016 8:27 pm

JimC wrote:"Piscator is a strange, lonely little boy who doesn't play with other students. Instead, he stays in one corner of the school yard, dissecting small invertebrates. We are somewhat concerned..."

Fair one...



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