Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

jamest
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by jamest » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:00 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
jamest wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
jamest wrote:you're just taking the piss with that last comment. :nono:
...and finally, he sees it! :biggrin:
Oh fuck off. Admit that you've made a cunt of yourself, for once.
You want to go there? really? :tea:

Your buttons are easy to push. You should try not to take every silly point as a mountain that MUST be CONQUERED. :biggrin:
Please do not imply that I do not have a sense of humour as a response to your overall failures in this serious discussion. Are you rEv in disguise? :nono:

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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:12 am

jamest wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
jamest wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
jamest wrote:you're just taking the piss with that last comment. :nono:
...and finally, he sees it! :biggrin:
Oh fuck off. Admit that you've made a cunt of yourself, for once.
You want to go there? really? :tea:

Your buttons are easy to push. You should try not to take every silly point as a mountain that MUST be CONQUERED. :biggrin:
Please do not imply that I do not have a sense of humour as a response to your overall failures in this serious discussion. Are you rEv in disguise? :nono:
I was implying no such thing. What I was implying was the pretty obvious FACT that you feel compelled to attack (usually without due preparation) any statement made by me that is not (or appears not to be) in complete agreement with your stated position. I don't give a shit if I "fail" in your eyes. Merely provoking you into a rash statement that others shred with minimal effort is plenty! :biggrin:
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:56 am

jamest wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
jamest wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
jamest wrote:you're just taking the piss with that last comment. :nono:
...and finally, he sees it! :biggrin:
Oh fuck off. Admit that you've made a cunt of yourself, for once.
You want to go there? really? :tea:

Your buttons are easy to push. You should try not to take every silly point as a mountain that MUST be CONQUERED. :biggrin:
Please do not imply that I do not have a sense of humour as a response to your overall failures in this serious discussion. Are you rEv in disguise? :nono:
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by surreptitious57 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:15 am

The simple answer to james question is the weather which in the spring of 1941 was unusually hostile in the English Channel and it would have been the
last chance Hitler had to launch the invasion of England. And so waiting to see if it could be launched was what delayed the invasion of Russia which as a
consequence started too late. And his total contempt for communism made him think that capitulation would occur just as easily as it had in all the other
European countries Germany had invaded since the start of the war. It was this which made him severely underestimate how long it would take to conquer
Russia. He did not learn from the failure of Napoleon the previous century. And nor did he anticipate the determination which ordinary Russians would fight
to defend their motherland and who were used to the weather unlike the Germans who were not. And Russian women worked in factories and Russian nurses
served at the Eastern Front where they too killed Germans alongside Russian soldiers. While German women by contrast were not employed in either capacity
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by MrJonno » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:12 pm

If you are going to declare war on most of the planet in a war you can't possibly win Hitler pretty much did as well as was humanely possible. Most the cock ups and mistakes were on the Allied side (at least for the first few years) and in alternative history scenario where the Allies made less mistakes Germany simply loses a lot earlier.

The mistakes Hitler made was going to war in the first place, due to Hitler's ideology however war could be the only result. He could have been really nice to his Jewish nuclear scientists who would have patriotically helped him get the bomb (like they were loyal to Germany in WW1) but then he wouldn't have launched his race wars on Europe in the first place or for that matter got into power
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by Rum » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:11 pm

He did as well as humanly possible? He declared war on the USA in 41, when he had no obligation to (following Pearl harbour). He had only actually 'declared' war on Belgium and the Netherlands prior to that. Declaring war on the USA was utterly incompetent and stupid and was probably the result of misplaced confidence based on the fact they had wiped the floor with the countries they had invaded up to them and the news concerning the reverses in the USSR were not really clear at that point. Hitler was actually an astonishingly incompetent war leader. It was Hitler's insanity and his insistence that the German people and the German army should never surrender that extended the war in Europe much longer than it needed to be after the outcome was clear to all concerned, if they had the remotest grip on the realities. The man was insane or at the very least astonishingly deluded and there should be no revisionism about how truly nasty a piece of work he was.

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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by JimC » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:45 pm

Rum wrote:He did as well as humanly possible? He declared war on the USA in 41, when he had no obligation to (following Pearl harbour). He had only actually 'declared' war on Belgium and the Netherlands prior to that. Declaring war on the USA was utterly incompetent and stupid and was probably the result of misplaced confidence based on the fact they had wiped the floor with the countries they had invaded up to them and the news concerning the reverses in the USSR were not really clear at that point. Hitler was actually an astonishingly incompetent war leader. It was Hitler's insanity and his insistence that the German people and the German army should never surrender that extended the war in Europe much longer than it needed to be after the outcome was clear to all concerned, if they had the remotest grip on the realities. The man was insane or at the very least astonishingly deluded and there should be no revisionism about how truly nasty a piece of work he was.
I think that MrJonno was mislead by the fact that, whatever Hitler's incompetencies were, the German war machine in the early years of the war was very, very effective, and the allies were, at least in terms of land warfare, a long way behind.
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by Sean Hayden » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:17 am

Yes 'n no -maybe- at least a big part of Germany's initial success was as much a surprise to them as it was to everyone else...

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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by JimC » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:39 am

Sean Hayden wrote:Yes 'n no -maybe- at least a big part of Germany's initial success was as much a surprise to them as it was to everyone else...
A surprise only to the extent that they were't really sure Blitzkrieg would work as effectively as it did. Generally, military historians say that the French and English, having used tanks as a means of breaking the trench stalemate in WW2, had not yet developed that arm as an integral part of a fast moving combined arms war of movement. The Germans, at least to a much greater extent, had done so, while the generals on the other side were still intent in perfecting their ability to fight the last war...
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by MrJonno » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:28 am

Declaring war on the US wasn't incompetent if you wanted world domination and you didnt want the US to be able to hide behind aggressive neutrality, Hitler biggest mistake was his aims and as I said allowing for that he did as well as could reasonably could be expected. .He did better than his military expected they would do as well

Good (but dry)book where two historians go back in history (they are not scientists/engineers) go back in time and try to help the alternative sides

The Foresight war
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0755 ... ge_o03_s00

Hitler should not have even taken France if the Allies has even been remotely with it never mind half of the USSR. You could certainly argue he wasn't really tested in the first 2-3 years of the war but after that no German leader could have achieved anything other than a better defeat purely due the differences in manufacturing bases
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by Rum » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:29 pm

Well you are backing off it seems to me. First he did 'as well as humanly possible' and now he did 'as well as could reasonably be expected'. I am not playing ego games here, but from as dispassionate a position as I can (having read extensively around the history a decade or more ago) I think it is fair to say he was incompetent. America was, I agree, supporting the UK in all but open warfare, but anyone who wages war on an enemy that is quite clearly overwhelmingly more powerful is incompetent in my book. Of course he should have realised that at the very outset in 1938/9 when things kicked off, but then he was after all bonkers.

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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by MrJonno » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Rum wrote:Well you are backing off it seems to me. First he did 'as well as humanly possible' and now he did 'as well as could reasonably be expected'. I am not playing ego games here, but from as dispassionate a position as I can (having read extensively around the history a decade or more ago) I think it is fair to say he was incompetent. America was, I agree, supporting the UK in all but open warfare, but anyone who wages war on an enemy that is quite clearly overwhelmingly more powerful is incompetent in my book. Of course he should have realised that at the very outset in 1938/9 when things kicked off, but then he was after all bonkers.
Didnt say wasn't bonkers, didnt say he was incompetent for starting a war that he couldn't win, but if you take the starting point that this did happen. What happened afterwards was about as good as it could have been for Germany. My starting point that Hitler had to declare war on the entire world because that was his reason for existing. The topic to me at least is what happend afterwards
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by laklak » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:34 pm

Given the isolationist stance of most of the American public it's not surprising he miscalculated. There was also the Atlantic Ocean, which was still seen as a rather difficult barrier to overcome for any large military force. I think he also underestimated the industrial capacity of the U.S., or at least the percentage of that capacity that would be turned over to military production.
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by MrJonno » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:36 am

Asking why Hitler declared war the US is silly, he had to if he wanted world domination. Does that mean he had any chance of achieving that not a chance but given the restraints of that objective there was no choice
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Re: Why did Hitler not fuck Britain before invading Russia?

Post by Jason » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:49 am

Because Georgia was always on his ma ma ma ma ma mind..


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