1939-40 Russo-Finnish Winter War

[Chinaski]

Mannerheim was a fascist???

Where you been?

Basking in the glow of Mannerheim's brilliant military strategies. How much of a fascist?

Check out the uniform.

http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr11 ... erheim.jpg[/imgc]

Can't see the link, apparently the hosting site doesn't hotlink.

[leo-rcc]

Mannerheim was a fascist???

Where you been?

Basking in the glow of Mannerheim's brilliant military strategies. How much of a fascist?

Check out the uniform.

http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr11 ... erheim.jpg[/imgc]

Can't see the link, apparently the hosting site doesn't hotlink.

It's the same picture as on Wikipedia.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Better now?

[Chinaski]

So a few iron crosses... Oh well. My respect for the man has only slightly wavered.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So a few iron crosses... Oh well. My respect for the man has only slightly wavered.

He was a tough SOB, and very smart. And as the Russians were his neighbor, fascism was probably the logical choice.

[FedUpWithFaith]

Mannerheim was a fascist???

Where you been?

Basking in the glow of Mannerheim's brilliant military strategies. How much of a fascist?

Don't worry honey. He was that cute and cuddly kind of fascist.

10% Fascist, 90% honey and spice

[ScholasticSpastic]

Mannerheim was a fascist???

Where you been?

Basking in the glow of Mannerheim's brilliant military strategies. How much of a fascist?

Don't worry honey. He was that cute and cuddly kind of fascist.

10% Fascist, 90% honey and spice

They had Political Correctness back then?

[klr]

Mannerheim was by all accounts a complex and interesting character, although there are no good english-language biographies of him that I know of, mainly because of linguistic issues.

The wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannerheim gives a flavour of this, especially his time with the Dalai Lama. Yes, he was something of a Facist, but so were a lot of other aristocrats at the time. It didn't stop almost all Finns from following him during the war. His Finnish was apparently very bad (he didn't start to learn the language until the age of 50), and sometimes he had to rely on interpreters to pass on his orders.

As for the war itself: The one book I have is The Winter War - The Russo-Finnish War of 1939-40 by William R. Trotter: http://www.amazon.com/Winter-War-Russo- ... 1854109324. This book is highly recommended if you can get a hold of it, and it's not that long - about 280 pages. There is another readily available recent book on the war, but I'll be damned if I can remember what it's called . Time to call in to one of the local bookstores again methinks ...

The fact that the Soviet high command (and much of the middle-ranking officer corps) had been destroyed by Stalin during the purges has already been mentioned. The very poor performance of the Soviet forces for most of the Russo-Finnish war didn't go unnoticed by the Germans. Red Army tactics were unimaginative, inflexible and largely unappropriate for the conditions. Because of the purges, commanders tended to be noted more for political obedience and and a general lack of initiative. Massed suicidal frontal attacks were the order of the day. Logistical and tactical planning was extremely poor. For example, the Soviets brought with them a full compliment of anti-tank guns, even though the Finns had no armour to speak of. The Finns captured many of the guns and turned them against the Red Army tanks. Preparation for the winter environment was nil to begin with. The Finns were literally able to ski rings around them. These sound like historical clichés, but they are actually true. One could go on and on about how poor Soviet preparation and organisation was for the first phase of the war.

As for anecdotes: One that comes immediately to mind is that some Finnish troops had to get psychiatric assistance after mowing down hordes of Red Army troops.

[klr]

...
As for the war itself: The one book I have is The Winter War - The Russo-Finnish War of 1939-40 by William R. Trotter: http://www.amazon.com/Winter-War-Russo- ... 1854109324. This book is highly recommended if you can get a hold of it, and it's not that long - about 280 pages. There is another readily available recent book on the war, but I'll be damned if I can remember what it's called . Time to call in to one of the local bookstores again methinks ...

White Death: Russia's War on Finland 1939-40, by Robert Edwards - http://www.amazon.com/White-Death-Russi ... 0753822474. A couple of reviewers on Amazon don't seem to like the writing style, but I'll hold judgment myself until I read it ... whenever that will be.

[FedUpWithFaith]

So a few iron crosses... Oh well. My respect for the man has only slightly wavered.

He was a tough SOB, and very smart. And as the Russians were his neighbor, fascism was probably the logical choice.

This thread really got me interested in Mannerheim - Thanks! (they're making a movie on him BTW). I've been reading bits and pieces about him now for several days when I had a few minutes. I can't find any reliable evidence he was a fascist. He did work with the Germans of course but as Gawd indicates it was pretty much by necessity. He protected Jews and accorded them equal rights and privileges and circumvented Hitler on more than one occasion. He also allowed the refugees from Leningrad to escape across the frozen lake when Hitler wanted him to block them - which could have changed the course of the war. Mannerheim was one smart cagy guy.

The government of Finland was never fascist during his time in power. It was a Democracy. He did have some sympathies with a somewhat far-right party but did little to help them politically. He was an elected leader who only strategically subverted one President (possibly/propbably with his willing consent) in order to best posture for peace for Finland.

Aside from his fashion sense, I'm finding little not to admire about this great man.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As FUWF pointed out, Finland was never officially "fascist". It was a matter of "choosing" sides at that time. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Germany was looking for allies and the tension between Finland and Russia was ready-made for a surrogate war. This also made US assistance an issue as left and right clashed over aid to Finland.

[Chinaski]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyc ... fraid2.jpg[/imgc]

[klr]

As FUWF pointed out, Finland was never officially "fascist". It was a matter of "choosing" sides at that time. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Germany was looking for allies and the tension between Finland and Russia was ready-made for a surrogate war. This also made US assistance an issue as left and right clashed over aid to Finland.

This is very, very true. There were actually a lot of fascist governments and fascist movements around at the time, but the Finns under Mannerheim don't really count. Sometimes the "fascist" label is applied too easily. The Finns were fighting for their existence as an independent nation, or the very least not to be reduced to a vassal or a puppet state. Finland had only existed as an independent nation since 1918. It could easily have gone the way of the three Baltic Republics, which were left under the Soviet 'sphere of influence' after horse trading between the Soviets and the Nazis. They didn't regain their independence until the breakup of the Soviet Union.

[FedUpWithFaith]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyc ... fraid2.jpg[/imgc]

Must be all that superior blond Nordic Aryan blood.

[Chinaski]

Actually the Finns are ethnically different than the Norwegians or the Swedes.