America's History Fibs

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by JimC » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:40 am

Hermit wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:18 am
JimC wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:52 am
To that, you need to add the effect of both the western sea blockade of Europe, and the joint US/UK bombing campaign, which, at least by '44, was biting deep into the German capacity to produce synthetic rubber and oil, to name only 2 vital resources...
In the context of what our member from Yellowknife posted about WWII we need to add exactly nothing whatsoever, Jocka. The bottom line is that 80% of German soldiers that were killed, went missing in action or became prisoners of war, did so at the hands of the red army.
If you want a broader picture of the factors that crushed the 3rd Reich, then the bombing campaign must be part of the picture. There were times when panzer divisions were desperately short of fuel on the Eastern Front, which severely limited their tactical options.

Check out "Fortress without a roof" by Wilbur H. Morrison...
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Hermit » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:06 am

JimC wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:40 am
Hermit wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:18 am
JimC wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:52 am
To that, you need to add the effect of both the western sea blockade of Europe, and the joint US/UK bombing campaign, which, at least by '44, was biting deep into the German capacity to produce synthetic rubber and oil, to name only 2 vital resources...
In the context of what our member from Yellowknife posted about WWII we need to add exactly nothing whatsoever, Jocka. The bottom line is that 80% of German soldiers that were killed, went missing in action or became prisoners of war, did so at the hands of the red army.
If you want a broader picture...
Our member from Yellowknife has more or less indicated that his knowledge about WWII has sprung from watching The Longest Day, Battle of the Bulge, etc, wherein the war was won by John Wayne, Robert Mitchum, seven or eight other intrepid American soldiers and a slightly odd Pom with a Tommy gun, and that he has recently been made aware of the fact that the Russian effort has been just about totally ignored. Keeping that in mind, and the title of this thread, America's History Fibs, a broader picture of how the war was won seems irrelevant, not to say inappropriate.

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Cunt » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:26 am

Hermit wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:46 am
Cunt wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:57 pm
Back to the distortions of America's history, I think it's odd how I didn't know the bit I learned recently. It's the kind of fact I could have guessed, even should have, but it never really occurred to me this way.

If you consider the 'cost' of winning WWII in soldiers spent, Russia (among several others) spent MUCH more than the USA.

I simply never thought of it in terms of 'weight' of contribution. The US really didn't get involved. USSR lost 20 times the people.

I know they were 'spending' them differently, but that doesn't exactly take away from the horror for me.

I was listening to a podcast, where Michael Shermer said that he was in Russia, and they tought WW2 differently, teaching their kids that Russia eliminated the Nazi's from Europe and it's damned hard to argue otherwise.
Not only did the Russians bear the brunt of German aggression, they also inflicted by far the most damage to the Wehrmacht. Figures are bound to be somewhat rubbery. All sides always overstate the damage they inflict on the enemy and underdeclare the damage they suffered. Nevertheless, analyses of extant records have resulted in numbers that can be regarded as reasonably accurate with significant confidence. The best work appears to have been done in a statistical study by Rüdiger Overmans, which began in 1992 and was published in 2000. In addition to the usual records, it benefited from tons of documents that were declassified in Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The study confirmed, in short, that 80% of Germany's soldiers that were killed, went missing in action or became prisoners of war, did so while fighting Russian troops.

It is quite possibly true that without material supplies sent primarily by the USA, the USSR's forces may have been driven back east of the Ural mountains, which made such help of vital importance, but overall the Russian effort dwarfs that of its western allies in human as well as material terms. Germany had lost the war three months after Project Barbarossa began, before its advance was stopped in Stalingrad and outside Moscow. First it stuck in the autumn mud, then it started its retreat when faced with counter-attacks in the snow.
It's fucking soft now. We have it SO good.

Now we're culturally supposed to hate those who were allies that recently...

Another bit from that interview that fucked me up, was when Shermer mentioned, in the context of German cultural guilt over the war, a feature called 'stumbling blocks'.

Heartwrenching.
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:13 am

The Americans are like Brexiteers and suffer from their own strain of Post Empire Syndrome; Post American Dream Syndrome. The biggest sufferer is the Orange Scrotum. America was never great. Only for 15 years of its history has it not been fighting someone.
I am looking forward very much to the series but of course our two American trolls will never accept any of it.
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:42 am

:hehe: Anyway did not Audie Murphy win the war single handed.
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Joe » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:53 pm

Well, our propaganda is quite good. Say what you will about capitalists, they're good at selling shit. :prof:
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:50 pm

Seabass wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:12 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:40 pm
American and European culture was very racist up until about 50-60 years ago, and it was a rather precipitous change since then.
American culture is still very racist, as is evident from the motherfucker we put in the White House.
That's absurd. Racism is very unpopular. To make open racist comments will easily get one fired from one's job, ostracized from one's friend-groups, and embarrassed publicly. Racist groups that hold public rallies or demonstrations are overwhelmingly opposed.

Is there racism in the US, sure, as there is in the UK, France, Germany, the Nether Regions, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Japan, China, India, Brazil, Russia.... and everywhere else in the world. To say that American culture is "still very racist" is just silly, though.
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:05 pm

Joe wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:53 pm
Well, our propaganda is quite good. Say what you will about capitalists, they're good at selling shit. :prof:
Maybe they were. But shit is not selling well these days.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:19 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:13 am
The Americans are like Brexiteers and suffer from their own strain of Post Empire Syndrome; Post American Dream Syndrome. The biggest sufferer is the Orange Scrotum. America was never great. Only for 15 years of its history has it not been fighting someone.
I am looking forward very much to the series but of course our two American trolls will never accept any of it.
Gotta love a European commenting about how many years there has been peace.

Europeans took a break from killing to take a shit once. You've had genocide on your continent like 20 years ago, fucksticks.

I love how Europe claims a Pax Europa since WW2, but most of that time they were warring with some colonial holding or another, or fighting the same wars in which the US was involved.

So peaceful....
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Rum » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:45 pm

SD lives in workers paradise where all good.

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:53 pm

I dont read his crap.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:45 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:05 pm
Joe wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:53 pm
Well, our propaganda is quite good. Say what you will about capitalists, they're good at selling shit. :prof:
Maybe they were. But shit is not selling well these days.
US exports hit an all time high in 2018, and became the largest oil producer in the world.

Now, we know Trump has only been in 2 years now, and in 2018, obviously, it was his first year really doing anything. So, the great exporting economy, and the massive oil production are really Obama's sales successes....
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Seabass » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:23 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:50 pm
Seabass wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:12 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:40 pm
American and European culture was very racist up until about 50-60 years ago, and it was a rather precipitous change since then.
American culture is still very racist, as is evident from the motherfucker we put in the White House.
That's absurd. Racism is very unpopular. To make open racist comments will easily get one fired from one's job, ostracized from one's friend-groups, and embarrassed publicly. Racist groups that hold public rallies or demonstrations are overwhelmingly opposed.

Is there racism in the US, sure, as there is in the UK, France, Germany, the Nether Regions, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Japan, China, India, Brazil, Russia.... and everywhere else in the world. To say that American culture is "still very racist" is just silly, though.
:funny: :funny: :funny: Only a white, conservative Republican would say something like this. You're a caricature. Go ask some black people if American culture is racist. Maybe you could even hold a seance to communicate with the ones that have been murdered by cops.
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:40 pm

Only a white, leftist SJW would say something like that. You're a joke. I guarantee I regularly interact with more "black and brown" people than you. Go make up stories elsewhere.
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Re: America's History Fibs

Post by Seabass » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:00 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:40 pm
Only a white, leftist SJW would say something like that. You're a joke. I guarantee I regularly interact with more "black and brown" people than you. Go make up stories elsewhere.
I'm sure you have a great relationship with The Blacks, Coito. :console:
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